|
| POSTED: October 24 11:59:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
-- |
|
|
|
| How to tell autogated tube from non-autogated? |
 |
|
|
|
I got a PVS-7D with a nice OMNI VI tube of MX10130D/UV type from 2005.. I‘d like to ask, how can I tell, whether the tube is autogated or not? Is it coded somewhere in the writings on the tube?
Similarly, how I can I tell as whether the tube is a Pinnacle or not?
Thanks for all answers |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 25 03:14:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#1 |
|
|
|
| How to tell autogated tube from non-autogated? |
|
|
| Yes and no. ITT auto-gated image tubes use K&M power supplies and the auto-gated supplies can be identified by the product code. Failing that, auto-gated tubes have been known to give off an audible whine. This whine is caused from the vibration of the Micro-channel Plate. However, the Omni VI contract calls for a high light resolution minimum of 36 line pairs per millimeter, and that is the important thing. I have both ITT and Litton Omni VI tubes and only the ITT tube whines. Performance of both tubes is identical in low and high light conditions. So, if you in fact have a Omni VI tube then don’t get hung up on the “auto-gated” moniker as high light performance is what really matters not if the tube whines. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 25 10:26:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#2 |
|
|
|
| tube whines |
|
|
Yes, the tube whines pretty much at roughly 12 kHz, I find it a bit apalling. The same happens with other two MX-11769 tubes, as well.
If the tube is an OMNI VI and has got the MX- and /UV codes (not F9810), does it automatically mean it is a Pinnacle? |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 26 01:00:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#3 |
|
|
|
| correcture |
|
|
| Corrected: the contract would be OMNI VI, not OMNI IV.. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 26 11:03:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#4 |
|
|
|
| tube whines |
|
|
I guess the short answer would be yes if the tube is made by ITT since they (ITT) list all their auto-gated tubes as having "Pinnacle" performance.
CAGE for ITT: 13567
CAGE for Litton: 55311 |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 26 12:58:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#5 |
|
|
|
| CAGE numbers |
|
|
The 10130 from 2005 comes from ITT, while my two PVS-14s are Litton-made, albeit even two years younger (Contract OMNI IV PY3 (C-J010), produced April 2007.
Do you accidentally know the differences in product codes for these and similar units so that I don‘t have to bother you again with this in the future?
You‘ve already helped me much, thanks a million, blackop66. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 29 06:24:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#6 |
|
|
|
| Tube crying |
|
|
Absolutely second that, the ITT cries like insane.. The Littons are also audible but only when you concentrate.
Thanks fo all great info.. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 29 12:27:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#7 |
|
|
|
| CAGE numbers |
|
|
| http://www.kandm.com/new/ITT_NV5015.pdf |
Here is a link to K&M site with all the information on the MX-10130 auto-gated power supply:
However, you probably will not see the power supply information on your tube since it will be under the labels that are stuck on the output side of the tube.
Of the two manufacturers I prefer the Litton tube since it doesn‘t whine but has all the high light performance of the ITT tube that crys like a baby. In fact, I had one ITT PVS-14 that cryed so loud it drove my cats and me crazy.
At the Shot Show in here Orlando I had the opportunity to play with a filmless auto-gated pair of ANVS-9 made by Litton. Not a peep from them and you could walk around in broad day-light and see as if you were looking thru optical binoculars. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 29 12:28:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#8 |
|
|
|
| K M Line |
|
|
| www.kandm.com/new/ITT_NV5015.pdf |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: October 31 04:50:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#9 |
|
|
|
| FYI, just to clarify |
|
|
Auto-gated power supplies the tubes do nothing to enhance the performance of the tube, it simply prevents damage to it by cycle power to the photocathode on and off at a high frequency. This allows the tube to be turned on in normal light conditions without destroying it.
However, since Pinnacle tubes are the only auto-gated tubes available from ITT (commercially available, that is) the tube whine is a good indicator that you have a Pinnacle tube. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 01 07:59:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#10 |
|
|
|
| MX-10130E UV |
|
|
Your MX-10130D/UV is not an Autogated tube. The Autogated version of that tube is the MX-10130E/UV and so are the MX-11769A, MX-10160B, and MX-10160C. ITT Pinnacles have a "G" in their model numbers such as F9810AG, F9810WG, etc. The Power Supplies, older ones being labeled K&M, new ones being labeled ITT are different for the Pinnacle tubes. Non Autogated tubes have two set of digits separated by a dash, i.e. 272864-8 and 273297-26 while Autogated tubes have three sets of digits separated by dashes, i.e. 272867-9-067 and 272867-9-086.
The best way to know if a tube is an Autogated tube is the audible whining noise that they make. Last night I was building up some PVS-14s in support of the 1033 Program. After replacing a flex strip on an ITT MX-11769/UV and installing it in a PVS-14 I noted the whining noise. The tube worked well so I knew that the noise was not an internal short or arc like I have heard in MX-9916/UVs. The tube was incorrectly labeled, the only one I have ever seen out of about 1000 Gen III tubes I have tested.
I hope this helps, Ed
|
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 01 08:22:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#11 |
|
|
|
| Not so |
|
|
Autogated power supplies send a positive or negative voltage to the MCP input, thereby attracting or repelling electrons produced by the photocathode. This basically cycles the flow of electrons produced by the photocathode on or off from entering the MCP. The attracting and repelling of those electrons causes the electrostatic field of the photocathode and MCP to repel or attract each other making the MCP flex back and forth which results in the whining noise heard.
The advantage of an Autogated tube is that it improves the quality of the image. This is best seen when looking at objects that have a light source behind them. Automating helps cut down on the glare you would see in non Autogated tubes. The reduced glare enables you to see more detail about the object in front of the light source.
Turning on an Autogated tube during day time ambient light levels can damage the tube’s photocathode and or screen.
|
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 01 08:28:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#12 |
|
|
|
| CAGE - FSCM Codes |
|
|
The CAGE codes or what was known as Federal Stock Class Mnaufacter codes are:
Litton 55311
ITT 13567 |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 02 00:14:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#13 |
|
|
|
| I think you are mistaken |
|
|
I think you are mistaken.. MX-10130E/UV and MX-11769A tubes are not only autogated types, these are Gen4 filmless tubes made by Northrop Grumman. The same about MX-10160B/UV.. CHeck the NG website for specsheets.
Gen3 tubes are MX-10130D/UV and MX-11769/UV, autogated or not. Just FYI, all three tubes I got produce audible whining noise and they are MX-10130D/UV, contract OMNI VI PY1 from 2005 and two MX-11769/UVs from 2007, assumably OMNI VI PY3 or OMNI VII.
The AG suffix you mentioned only applies for tubes without MX designation, ergo non-MilSpec types.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 02 03:44:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#14 |
|
|
|
| so |
|
|
The whine is caused by the MCP flexing, but the power doesn‘t cycle between - and +. It is just + and off to the photocathode. The front side of the MCP always has a negative charge, so it attracts when the photocathode is on and relaxes when it‘s off.
As for quality, it is not the Autogated PS that reduces halo, it is the distance between the MCP and photocathode that makes the biggest difference. The closer together they are the less opportunity the electrons have to spread out before they reach the MCP.
As a general rule, you should never turn on a set of NVGs in a lit room, so I‘m in no way advising it. But Pinnacles can do it without light damage because the Autogating PS essentially prevents too many electrons from bombarding the components at once. I‘ve done it several times with no ill effects. High intensity light will still damage them, but normal light levels will not. |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 02 05:21:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#15 |
|
|
|
| Correction... |
|
|
The Military designation: MX-10130E/UV is for the thin film (ITT) Autogated tube and filmless (Litton aka NG) Autogated tubes for the PVS-7B/D while the MX-11769A/UV is the thin film (ITT) Autogated and filmless (NG) Autogated tube for the AN/PVS-14. The same logic being true for the two ANVIS tubes mentioned. An improvement to a Military item is denoted by a change in the model number, which is a letter, such as the MX-10130C’s improvement was a change in its design so that it could be used in all PVS-7 NVGs, Litton, ITT, Varo etc. The MX-10130D’s improvement was a change to the ion barrier known as the film, be it thinned (ITT) or eliminated (NG). I work on DoD equipment and image tubes all of the time in support of the 1033 Program. I’ve seen the MX-10130Es, MX-11769As, and 10160Bs & Cs made by NG CAGE code 55311 and ITT CAGE code 13567.
I’ve seen the specs sheet on both ITT and NG websites for a number of years. While NG uses the MX designations for their models, ITT uses their Commercial designations the F98xx series in the spec sheets they publish, hence the AG and other “G” designations for their commercial tubes. However, when you see a Military ITT tube, it has the MX designations on the label.
The Military tubes I work with come from DoD DRMOs via the LEA who hires me to build up night vision equipment for them. After I use all serviceable tubes, any remaining tubes and parts are sent back to the LEA. So, I am curious, where did you get the MX-10130D/UV and two MX-11769/UV tubes that you have? Do you work in a DoD field maintenance unit?
|
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 03 01:10:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#16 |
|
|
|
| answer |
|
|
Sorry, Ed, I am here because I like to understand the things I am professionally using. I am in the forces and I cannot reveal any closer information regarding real usage of the tubes/NV gear. I hope you understand..
I see your logic but don‘t quite understand the fact that all three mentioned tubes whine like hell. If they are not autogated as you say, then where does the whine come from? |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 04 07:47:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#17 |
|
|
|
| miss labeled |
|
|
No problem. I was in the USAF for 20 years and know what can and can‘t be made public.
I think that if they are whining, they are most likely Autogated tubes. The last batch of MX-11769s I had sent to me via 1033, I have almost finished test all 20 of them. One was an ITT tube that was labeled as MX-11769/UV but it whined!? I did further tests on it and it was in good shape so it must be an Autogated aka MX-11769A/UV tube. A few days after finding that one, I found a Litton tube labeled as an 11769, but it to whined and was serviceable. For whatever reason, they were not labeled correctly. In about two weeks I‘ll be going thru some ITT and Litton MX-10130C & Ds. I‘ll be looking for any that whine and are not labeled as "E"s. Enjoy your weekend, Ed
|
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: November 05 00:33:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#18 |
|
|
|
| strange |
|
|
That is strange. Three tubes in our unit, one 10130D from ITT and two 11769s from Litton, all whining and all mislabeled? If this is true, then there must be some systematic labeling error..
If you really are the Ed I think you are, then I think you know your stuff damn well and that a mistake from your side is out of question. Then it is really weird...
Wishing best of luck |
|
|
|
|
| REPLIED: December 31 07:34:00, 2007 ( 00: AM PST ) |
#19 |
|
|
|
| Strange stuff |
|
|
| Hello Flex297, Yes, it’s me, Ed Wilcox. Working in the NV Industry for close to 20 years now and seeing close to a thousand tubes, I do see strange things most people never see. Like, plastic lenses used in the lens assemblies of the PVS-5A, two step fiber optics for the photocathode of the MX-9916 tube used in some of the original AN/PVS-5 that enabled the user to see near and far just by looking up or down. A PVS-14 tube having the full sliver bullet configuration. A three number set part number on a power supply used in an Autogated tube making a whining noise that could only be heard with a stethoscope. The list goes on… |
|
|
|
|
| Terminology |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Night Vision News |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
